[Cz-biology] Species names

Larry Sanger sanger at citizendium.org
Fri Oct 26 13:19:21 CDT 2007 

I think the exchange is reaching the point of diminishing returns--but for
what it's worth, the reason I said "findability," or ability to be found
easily, is this.  How something is named impacts where it appears in Google
search results, because it impacts whether someone recognizes a page as
being what they're looking for.  It also impacts how easily a page can be
found (and recognized) via our own search engine, and via various lists of
articles.  The relevant issue here lies in *probabilities*.  It is possible
to *find* all sorts of things online, if you know exactly what you're
looking for or if you look hard enough.  But you can increase the
probability of finding it by labelling it properly (of course).

--Larry

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cz-biology-bounces at mail.citizendium.org 
> [mailto:cz-biology-bounces at mail.citizendium.org] On Behalf Of 
> David Goodman
> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 2:01 PM
> To: Biology Workgroup List
> Subject: Re: [Cz-biology] Species names
> 
> 
> Larry, I think you mean "understandability" and perhaps 
> "recognizability". But finding, in the sense used of people 
> knowing we have an article and reaching the right article 
> from the citizendium search box or an outside search engine, 
> is not the problem in  the use f common vs. scientific 
> names--certainly not if its merely the sequence.
> 
> But I think in any case you and I agree that the common name 
> first when distinctive is clearer in general. it's equally 
> clear to specialists, and much more clear to others.
> 
> david
> 
> On 10/26/07, Larry Sanger <sanger at citizendium.org> wrote:
> > But it is!  Everything contributes to findability, including what 
> > words are put in the title and what order those words 
> appear in.  The 
> > better we get such details right, the *more* findable our 
> content will 
> > be--that's my point.
> >
> > --Larry
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: cz-biology-bounces at mail.citizendium.org
> > > [mailto:cz-biology-bounces at mail.citizendium.org] On 
> Behalf Of David 
> > > Goodman
> > > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:17 AM
> > > To: Biology Workgroup List
> > > Subject: Re: [Cz-biology] Species names
> > >
> > >
> > > Findability is not the problem. Any and all names though 
> appropriate 
> > > can be used as a cross reference, and also included in 
> the article.
> > >
> > > On 10/26/07, Larry Sanger <sanger at citizendium.org> wrote:
> > > > Well, it's a findability contest.  :-)  And findability 
> is a very 
> > > > difficult thing indeed.  We already have a mountain to
> > > climb, getting
> > > > our articles high in the Google rankings...though we are making 
> > > > headway there...
> > > >
> > > > It's important for names to be
> > > >
> > > > (1) precise
> > > > (2) as user-friendly as possible
> > > >
> > > > I am convinced there is a way to do (2) without sacrificing (1).
> > > >
> > > > --Larry
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: cz-biology-bounces at mail.citizendium.org
> > > > > [mailto:cz-biology-bounces at mail.citizendium.org] On Behalf Of 
> > > > > Kim van der Linde
> > > > > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 3:55 AM
> > > > > To: Biology Workgroup List
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Cz-biology] Species names
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > David,
> > > > >
> > > > > Look at for example the site of Tree-of-Life:
> > > http://www.tolweb.org/
> > > > > all name there a re on the scientific name only, for example 
> > > > > http://www.tolweb.org/Barnardius_zonarius/91491 and there
> > > are various
> > > > > other websites doing the same.
> > > > >
> > > > > The scholarly consensus various per species, the fluffier
> > > the more
> > > > > the common name is used, but many many science articles use 
> > > > > 'Drosophila' (strictly speaking a genus name) synonymous for 
> > > > > 'Drosophila melanogaster', but none in their right mind would 
> > > > > suggest to do that for a encyclopaedia article.
> > > > >
> > > > > If it is all a popularity contest, that is fine, but I
> > > hope to avoid
> > > > > that.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kim
> > > > >
> > > > > David Goodman wrote:
> > > > > > It's consistent all right, but  I thought we were to
> > > represent the
> > > > > > scholarly consensus. The scholarly consensus of journal
> > > > > editors is to
> > > > > > do nothing of the sort., as i showed for the panda. I
> > > was unable
> > > > > > to find one single article in one single journal in all of 
> > > > > > Biological Abstracts where the title was the way we
> > > proposed it.
> > > > > > The
> > > > > usages was
> > > > > > about evenly split in article titles between Common name 
> > > > > > (scientific
> > > > > > name) and Common name only.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Conceivably this is an exception. I'll try some other 
> > > > > > examples.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > David Goodman
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 10/25/07, Kim van der Linde <kim at kimvdlinde.com> wrote:
> > > > > >> For those who just through this medium jump in to the very
> > > > > specific
> > > > > >> case (Giant Panda), please see the discussion of this at
> > > > > >>
> > > http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ_Talk:Biology_Workgroup at the
> > > > > >> various entries. Before people based on the Giant 
> Panda make 
> > > > > >> decisions for many species, please consider the following:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> 1. We have (multiple) common names for the fluffy and the
> > > > > furry and
> > > > > >> the beautiful stuff, but there are many many without a
> > > > > common name:
> > > > > >> 1a. What about those without a common name? 1b. What about
> > > > > those with
> > > > > >> a very uncommon used common name? 1c. What if one species
> > > > > has two or
> > > > > >> more common names (for example: Monk parrot (British)
> > > > > versus Quacker
> > > > > >> Parrot (parts of the US); Cougar or Mountain Lion or Puma) 
> > > > > >> 1d. What about common names used for multiple groups (for
> > > > > example: are
> > > > > >> the Drosophilidae or the Tethritidae the fruitflies)?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> 2. Each and every name can be created as a redirect to the
> > > > > specific
> > > > > >> page, as such, Giant Panda
> > > > > >> (http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Giant_Panda)
> > > > > >> redirects to
> > > > > >>
> > > > > http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Ailuropoda_melanoleuca_(Giant_P
> > > > > anda) just
> > > > > >> as http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Ailuropoda_melanoleuca
> > > > > should point to
> > > > > >>
> > > > > http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Ailuropoda_melanoleuca_(Giant_P
> > > > > anda) just
> > > > > >> as Bai Xiong, Bamboo Bear, Da Xiong Mao, Hua Xiong, Mo, Pi
> > > > > xiu, Panda
> > > > > >> and Panda Bear. As such, searching is not an issue at all,
> > > > > and both the
> > > > > >> title as well as the first sentence makes immediately
> > > clear what
> > > > > >> is going on.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Base on al this, it was proposed on the Biology workgroup
> > > > > talkpage to
> > > > > >> use the following solution:
> > > > > >> ----------------
> > > > > >> # Each species or higher taxon, except exceptions
> > > below, are to
> > > > > >> be written under their official scientific name. 
> If there is 
> > > > > >> a single established common name, that name is included in 
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > title between
> > > > > >> parenthesis. (e.g. "''Barnardius zonarius'' (Australian
> > > > > Ringneck)").
> > > > > >> # Groups that are included in the "''Latin name''
> > > (Common name)"
> > > > > >> system are:
> > > > > >> #* Birds ([http://www.worldbirdnames.org/names.html
> > > > > offcial names]).
> > > > > >> #* Mammals ([http://www.bucknell.edu/msw3/ the single 
> > > > > >> authoritative source for mammal names]).
> > > > > >> #* Other groups to be added if a single authoritative
> > > > > source has been
> > > > > >> established.
> > > > > >> # If a single authoritative common name is available for a
> > > > > species (see
> > > > > >> point above), that name is to be used in the article and 
> > > > > >> overrules English dialect varieties. # Subspecies and 
> > > > > >> specific populations are included in the
> > > > > article of the
> > > > > >> species, unless they warrant a full article by themselves
> > > > > due to the
> > > > > >> amount of subspecies specific information.
> > > > > >> # All common names are created as redirects to the main
> > > > > article. All
> > > > > >> scientific synonyms are created as redirects to the main
> > > > > article. In
> > > > > >> case of the "''Latin name'' (Common name)" scheme, the
> > > the main
> > > > > >> scientific name is also created as a redirect. #
> > > Exceptions. The
> > > > > >> following domesticated species are
> > > > > created under their
> > > > > >> common name, most of the time using "Domesticated " as
> > > a prefix:
> > > > > >> #* [[Human]] (''Homo sapiens sapiens'')
> > > > > >> #* [[Domesticated horse]] (''Equus ferus caballus'')
> > > > > >> #* [[Domesticated cat]] (''Felis silvestris catus'')
> > > > > >> #* [[Domesticated dog]] (''Canis lupus familiaris'')
> > > > > >> #* [[Donkey]] (''Equus asinus asinus'') or (''Equus
> > > > > africanus assinus'')
> > > > > >> #* To be completed. (''Camelus ferus''; ''Lama guanicoe'';
> > > > > ''Vicugna
> > > > > >> vicugna''; ''Bos primigenius''; ''Bos gaurus''; ''Bubalus
> > > > > arnee''; ''Bos
> > > > > >> mutus''; ''Capra aegagrus''; ''Ovis orientalis''; ''Cavia 
> > > > > >> aperea''; ''Mustela putorius''; ''Carassius gibelio''; 
> > > > > >> ''Bombyx
> > > > > mandarina'', etc.)
> > > > > >> ----------------------
> > > > > >> Kim
> > > > > >> --
> > > > > >> http://www.kimvdlinde.com
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > > >> Cz-biology mailing list Cz-biology at mail.citizendium.org
> > > > > >> http://mail.citizendium.org/mailman/listinfo/cz-biology
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > http://www.kimvdlinde.com 
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Cz-biology mailing list
> > > > > Cz-biology at mail.citizendium.org 
> > > > > http://mail.citizendium.org/mailman/listinfo/cz-biology
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S. 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Cz-biology mailing list
> > > Cz-biology at mail.citizendium.org 
> > > http://mail.citizendium.org/mailman/listinfo/cz-biology
> > >
> >
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> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S. 
> _______________________________________________
> Cz-biology mailing list
> Cz-biology at mail.citizendium.org 
> http://mail.citizendium.org/mailman/listinfo/cz-biology
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