[Cz-biology] Species names

David Goodman dgoodmanny at gmail.com
Sat Oct 27 00:29:42 CDT 2007 

Actually, I think I understand your concern better now for this
explanation /Returns didnt diminish. sometimes explaining terminology
is important.  Thanks -- David

On 10/26/07, Larry Sanger <sanger at citizendium.org> wrote:
> I think the exchange is reaching the point of diminishing returns--but for
> what it's worth, the reason I said "findability," or ability to be found
> easily, is this.  How something is named impacts where it appears in Google
> search results, because it impacts whether someone recognizes a page as
> being what they're looking for.  It also impacts how easily a page can be
> found (and recognized) via our own search engine, and via various lists of
> articles.  The relevant issue here lies in *probabilities*.  It is possible
> to *find* all sorts of things online, if you know exactly what you're
> looking for or if you look hard enough.  But you can increase the
> probability of finding it by labelling it properly (of course).
>
> --Larry
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cz-biology-bounces at mail.citizendium.org
> > [mailto:cz-biology-bounces at mail.citizendium.org] On Behalf Of
> > David Goodman
> > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 2:01 PM
> > To: Biology Workgroup List
> > Subject: Re: [Cz-biology] Species names
> >
> >
> > Larry, I think you mean "understandability" and perhaps
> > "recognizability". But finding, in the sense used of people
> > knowing we have an article and reaching the right article
> > from the citizendium search box or an outside search engine,
> > is not the problem in  the use f common vs. scientific
> > names--certainly not if its merely the sequence.
> >
> > But I think in any case you and I agree that the common name
> > first when distinctive is clearer in general. it's equally
> > clear to specialists, and much more clear to others.
> >
> > david
> >
> > On 10/26/07, Larry Sanger <sanger at citizendium.org> wrote:
> > > But it is!  Everything contributes to findability, including what
> > > words are put in the title and what order those words
> > appear in.  The
> > > better we get such details right, the *more* findable our
> > content will
> > > be--that's my point.
> > >
> > > --Larry
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: cz-biology-bounces at mail.citizendium.org
> > > > [mailto:cz-biology-bounces at mail.citizendium.org] On
> > Behalf Of David
> > > > Goodman
> > > > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:17 AM
> > > > To: Biology Workgroup List
> > > > Subject: Re: [Cz-biology] Species names
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Findability is not the problem. Any and all names though
> > appropriate
> > > > can be used as a cross reference, and also included in
> > the article.
> > > >
> > > > On 10/26/07, Larry Sanger <sanger at citizendium.org> wrote:
> > > > > Well, it's a findability contest.  :-)  And findability
> > is a very
> > > > > difficult thing indeed.  We already have a mountain to
> > > > climb, getting
> > > > > our articles high in the Google rankings...though we are making
> > > > > headway there...
> > > > >
> > > > > It's important for names to be
> > > > >
> > > > > (1) precise
> > > > > (2) as user-friendly as possible
> > > > >
> > > > > I am convinced there is a way to do (2) without sacrificing (1).
> > > > >
> > > > > --Larry
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: cz-biology-bounces at mail.citizendium.org
> > > > > > [mailto:cz-biology-bounces at mail.citizendium.org] On Behalf Of
> > > > > > Kim van der Linde
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 3:55 AM
> > > > > > To: Biology Workgroup List
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Cz-biology] Species names
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > David,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Look at for example the site of Tree-of-Life:
> > > > http://www.tolweb.org/
> > > > > > all name there a re on the scientific name only, for example
> > > > > > http://www.tolweb.org/Barnardius_zonarius/91491 and there
> > > > are various
> > > > > > other websites doing the same.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The scholarly consensus various per species, the fluffier
> > > > the more
> > > > > > the common name is used, but many many science articles use
> > > > > > 'Drosophila' (strictly speaking a genus name) synonymous for
> > > > > > 'Drosophila melanogaster', but none in their right mind would
> > > > > > suggest to do that for a encyclopaedia article.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If it is all a popularity contest, that is fine, but I
> > > > hope to avoid
> > > > > > that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kim
> > > > > >
> > > > > > David Goodman wrote:
> > > > > > > It's consistent all right, but  I thought we were to
> > > > represent the
> > > > > > > scholarly consensus. The scholarly consensus of journal
> > > > > > editors is to
> > > > > > > do nothing of the sort., as i showed for the panda. I
> > > > was unable
> > > > > > > to find one single article in one single journal in all of
> > > > > > > Biological Abstracts where the title was the way we
> > > > proposed it.
> > > > > > > The
> > > > > > usages was
> > > > > > > about evenly split in article titles between Common name
> > > > > > > (scientific
> > > > > > > name) and Common name only.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Conceivably this is an exception. I'll try some other
> > > > > > > examples.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > David Goodman
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 10/25/07, Kim van der Linde <kim at kimvdlinde.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >> For those who just through this medium jump in to the very
> > > > > > specific
> > > > > > >> case (Giant Panda), please see the discussion of this at
> > > > > > >>
> > > > http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ_Talk:Biology_Workgroup at the
> > > > > > >> various entries. Before people based on the Giant
> > Panda make
> > > > > > >> decisions for many species, please consider the following:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 1. We have (multiple) common names for the fluffy and the
> > > > > > furry and
> > > > > > >> the beautiful stuff, but there are many many without a
> > > > > > common name:
> > > > > > >> 1a. What about those without a common name? 1b. What about
> > > > > > those with
> > > > > > >> a very uncommon used common name? 1c. What if one species
> > > > > > has two or
> > > > > > >> more common names (for example: Monk parrot (British)
> > > > > > versus Quacker
> > > > > > >> Parrot (parts of the US); Cougar or Mountain Lion or Puma)
> > > > > > >> 1d. What about common names used for multiple groups (for
> > > > > > example: are
> > > > > > >> the Drosophilidae or the Tethritidae the fruitflies)?
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 2. Each and every name can be created as a redirect to the
> > > > > > specific
> > > > > > >> page, as such, Giant Panda
> > > > > > >> (http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Giant_Panda)
> > > > > > >> redirects to
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Ailuropoda_melanoleuca_(Giant_P
> > > > > > anda) just
> > > > > > >> as http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Ailuropoda_melanoleuca
> > > > > > should point to
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Ailuropoda_melanoleuca_(Giant_P
> > > > > > anda) just
> > > > > > >> as Bai Xiong, Bamboo Bear, Da Xiong Mao, Hua Xiong, Mo, Pi
> > > > > > xiu, Panda
> > > > > > >> and Panda Bear. As such, searching is not an issue at all,
> > > > > > and both the
> > > > > > >> title as well as the first sentence makes immediately
> > > > clear what
> > > > > > >> is going on.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Base on al this, it was proposed on the Biology workgroup
> > > > > > talkpage to
> > > > > > >> use the following solution:
> > > > > > >> ----------------
> > > > > > >> # Each species or higher taxon, except exceptions
> > > > below, are to
> > > > > > >> be written under their official scientific name.
> > If there is
> > > > > > >> a single established common name, that name is included in
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > title between
> > > > > > >> parenthesis. (e.g. "''Barnardius zonarius'' (Australian
> > > > > > Ringneck)").
> > > > > > >> # Groups that are included in the "''Latin name''
> > > > (Common name)"
> > > > > > >> system are:
> > > > > > >> #* Birds ([http://www.worldbirdnames.org/names.html
> > > > > > offcial names]).
> > > > > > >> #* Mammals ([http://www.bucknell.edu/msw3/ the single
> > > > > > >> authoritative source for mammal names]).
> > > > > > >> #* Other groups to be added if a single authoritative
> > > > > > source has been
> > > > > > >> established.
> > > > > > >> # If a single authoritative common name is available for a
> > > > > > species (see
> > > > > > >> point above), that name is to be used in the article and
> > > > > > >> overrules English dialect varieties. # Subspecies and
> > > > > > >> specific populations are included in the
> > > > > > article of the
> > > > > > >> species, unless they warrant a full article by themselves
> > > > > > due to the
> > > > > > >> amount of subspecies specific information.
> > > > > > >> # All common names are created as redirects to the main
> > > > > > article. All
> > > > > > >> scientific synonyms are created as redirects to the main
> > > > > > article. In
> > > > > > >> case of the "''Latin name'' (Common name)" scheme, the
> > > > the main
> > > > > > >> scientific name is also created as a redirect. #
> > > > Exceptions. The
> > > > > > >> following domesticated species are
> > > > > > created under their
> > > > > > >> common name, most of the time using "Domesticated " as
> > > > a prefix:
> > > > > > >> #* [[Human]] (''Homo sapiens sapiens'')
> > > > > > >> #* [[Domesticated horse]] (''Equus ferus caballus'')
> > > > > > >> #* [[Domesticated cat]] (''Felis silvestris catus'')
> > > > > > >> #* [[Domesticated dog]] (''Canis lupus familiaris'')
> > > > > > >> #* [[Donkey]] (''Equus asinus asinus'') or (''Equus
> > > > > > africanus assinus'')
> > > > > > >> #* To be completed. (''Camelus ferus''; ''Lama guanicoe'';
> > > > > > ''Vicugna
> > > > > > >> vicugna''; ''Bos primigenius''; ''Bos gaurus''; ''Bubalus
> > > > > > arnee''; ''Bos
> > > > > > >> mutus''; ''Capra aegagrus''; ''Ovis orientalis''; ''Cavia
> > > > > > >> aperea''; ''Mustela putorius''; ''Carassius gibelio'';
> > > > > > >> ''Bombyx
> > > > > > mandarina'', etc.)
> > > > > > >> ----------------------
> > > > > > >> Kim
> > > > > > >> --
> > > > > > >> http://www.kimvdlinde.com
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > > > >> Cz-biology mailing list Cz-biology at mail.citizendium.org
> > > > > > >> http://mail.citizendium.org/mailman/listinfo/cz-biology
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > http://www.kimvdlinde.com
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Cz-biology mailing list
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> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Cz-biology mailing list
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S.
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Cz-biology mailing list
> > > > Cz-biology at mail.citizendium.org
> > > > http://mail.citizendium.org/mailman/listinfo/cz-biology
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > http://mail.citizendium.org/mailman/listinfo/cz-biology
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cz-biology mailing list
> > Cz-biology at mail.citizendium.org
> > http://mail.citizendium.org/mailman/listinfo/cz-biology
> >
>
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-- 
David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S.

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