[Cz-chemistry] Need help in obtaining a suitable drawing for [[Vacuum Distillation]]

Wed Feb 13 08:41:57 CST 2008

Yes, I saw the pseudonym for the author after I sent my last message.  Stephen is correct, we cannot use that image without knowing that the person really made the image and released it.  If you can't find an image, I could make one in Illustrator, but it would be alot of work and I can't get around to it for awhile.
Lets hunt around for a free image first.

dave

David E. Volk, Ph.D.
Research Scientist
Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology
Sealy Center for Structural Biology and Molecular  Biophysics
University of Texas Medical Branch
Galveston, TX 77555-1157
Office: 409-747-6803
Cell:    409-789-8588
email: devolk at utmb.edu

"Science is the organized skepticism in the reliability of expert opinion." 
        Richard Feynman

"All truth passes through three stages:
                   First, it is ridiculed.
      Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident"
     Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

From: mbeychok
Sent: Tue 2/12/2008 4:30 PM
To: Chemistry Workgroup List
Subject: Re: [Cz-chemistry] Need help in obtaining a suitable drawing for [[Vacuum Distillation]]

David:

That is what I thought also. But Stephen Ewen insists that we must have the real name of author of that drawing. Both Stephen Ewen and I have asked the Wikipedia author of that drawing (Wikipedia User:Quantock Goblin) to give us his real name and he has politely declined. According to Stephen Ewen that means we cannot use that image. I am too new to Citizendium to understand why Stephen feels that way. If you could persuade Stephen otherwise, at least in this one case,  it would be much appreciated. 

Thanks for your response,

Milton Beychok
1102 Colony Plaza
Newport Beach, CA 92660, USA

Phone: 949-718-1360
Web Site: http://www.air-dispersion.com/
=============================================

Volk, David E. wrote: 
All, the image linked below from  Wikipedia says it is released to the public domain.  Can't we just use that image?

David E. Volk, Ph.D.
Research Scientist
Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology
Sealy Center for Structural Biology and Molecular  Biophysics
University of Texas Medical Branch
Galveston, TX 77555-1157
Office: 409-747-6803
Cell:    409-789-8588
email: devolk at utmb.edu

"Science is the organized skepticism in the reliability of expert opinion." 
        Richard Feynman

"All truth passes through three stages:
                   First, it is ridiculed.
      Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident"
     Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

From: mbeychok
Sent: Tue 2/12/2008 3:10 PM
To: Chemistry Workgroup List
Subject: Re: [Cz-chemistry] Need help in obtaining a suitable drawing for [[Vacuum Distillation]]

Richard:

Thanks for your response. I assume that where you said "When we do our air sensitive distillations, we use a modified Vigreux column coupled to a standard jacketed condensation tube and have nitrogen purges on everything while we distill the solution into a Schlenk-type vessel with a stopcock", that it is not a vacuum distillation which is the subject of my "Vacuum distillation" article in CZ. Is that correct?

However, I also assume that where you said "Our other method, in the case of high boilers, is to use a short-path distillation head that we can hook up to a vacuum pump, similar to that found on the ChemGlass website (part # CG-1237).  The other distillation head on the ChemGlass website (CG-1233) will also assist in air sensitive distillations", that it is definitely a vacuum distillation. In that case,  I would very much like to get a drawing of your setup. 

If at all possible, the drawing should be in the .png format and about the same size as that PerkinsTriangle drawing in Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Perkin_triangle_distillation_apparatus.png . As you can see it is about 450 x 650 px and 30 KB. It could even be twice that large if need be ... but no more than that.  Just as in that Wikipedia drawing, the various parts should be numbered and  you should please name each part for me so that I could create a legend (naming each numbered part) to be included in the drawing caption (not in the drawing itself). 

In my CZ article on "Vacuum distillation", I  will  revise the the "Perkin triangle apparatus" subsection  and re-title it as well. Would you please be so kind as to also:

(1) Suggest a new title for that section.
(2) Send me about a 2-4 paragraph writeup on your method of distilling air sensitive materials. I am a retired chemical engineer,  not a chemist. So your writeup will be better than anything I could come up with.

Thanks again,

Milton Beychok
1102 Colony Plaza
Newport Beach, CA 92660, USA

Phone: 949-718-1360
Web Site: http://www.air-dispersion.com/
=============================================

Richard Mayes wrote: 
The pdf http://www.chem.queensu.ca/courses/06/chem397/ManipAirSens.pdf shows a set-up that achieves the same result of the Perkin Distillation Head.  I embarrassingly must admit that I had to look up the drawing you cited even though we do air sensitive distillations all the time in our lab (mainly metal chlorides and alkyltin compounds).   When we do our air sensitive distillations, we use a modified Vigreux column coupled to a standard jacketed condensation tube and have nitrogen purges on everything while we distill the solution into a Schlenk-type vessel with a stopcock.  Our other method, in the case of high boilers, is to use a short-path distillation head that we can hook up to a vacuum pump, similar to that found on the ChemGlass website (part # CG-1237).  The other distillation head on the ChemGlass website (CG-1233) will also assist in air sensitive distillations.  

If you are interested in what we use, I can get you a drawing of our setup in a few days.

Richard Mayes

Graduate Research Assistant
Inorganic Materials & Catalysis
Barnes Group
Dept. of Chemistry
University of Tennessee
Knoxville, TN 37996 

On Feb 12, 2008 2:05 AM, mbeychok <mbeychok at cox.net> wrote:

Hello all:

Yesterday, I created a new CZ article [[Vacuum distillation]]. The article has two main sections: "Vacuum distillation in petroleum refining" and "Laboratory-scale vacuum distillation". 

The laboratory section has a sub-section describing the use of the "Perkin triangle apparatus" for vacuum distillation of air-sensitive material. That section needs to be enhanced with a drawing of the Perkin triangle apparatus that can be uploaded into CZ. A drawing would be preferable rather than a photo.

An example of such a drawing exists in the Wikipedia "Distillation" article but the author of that drawing has declined giving us his real name, so we cannot obtain his drawing from Wikimedia Commons and upload it into CZ.

Can any of you provide a similar drawing that we can upload into CZ? Failing that, can any of you provide a good, clear photo of the Perkin triangle apparatus?

I would be most appreciative of any help in this matter. Thanks in advance,    

Milton Beychok
1102 Colony Plaza
Newport Beach, CA 92660, USA

Phone: 949-718-1360
Web Site: http://www.air-dispersion.com/
=============================================

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