[Cz-editcouncil] peer-review and relevance to Citizendium

Fri Apr 27 16:53:17 CDT 2007

In difficult situations-- difficult for any one of a number of
reasons--either because the actual decision is uncertain, or because a
proposed decision will be controversial, or because the situation is
being watched, or -- as in this case -- because the decision may set a
precedent, it is good to get an additional opinion.

When I have been involved in editing a journal, we asked a third
reviewer when we knew we were dealing with difficult authors, or when
the changes proposed by the two reviews were contradictory, or when
the article was in some way  atypical. In fact, one of the guys we
asked told me that he specialized in doing this for journals in his
field (a senior respected still active figure but with no current
professional affiliation--which is we selected him.)

It can't hurt. The proposed decision is almost certain correct, but
the clearest way of demonstrating that to the author and anyone
watching is to ask somebody qualified but not previous involved.  -

DavidGoodman

On 4/27/07, DAVID INNIS <dmi at prodigy.net> wrote:
> To clarify my earlier position: I don't think a single editor from the
> appropriate workgroup should be able to make the decision to delete.  This
> was not the situation that we were facing.  In this case we had an editor
> and Larry, the chief editor (similar to the Peter King and Ethics
> situation).  The question really is whether this is enough to delete an
> article.  I think it is appropriate for Larry to use his powers to protect
> the content integrity of Citizendium as he sees fit (even without
> concurrence from a workgroup editor) just as a workgroup editor is expected
> to protect the workgroup content integrity.  I also think that we, as a
> council, might well expect some collective rights similar to Larry's to
> decide overall content, only more democratically decided once we are up and
> functioning.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> John R Moffett <drjohn at factinista.org> wrote:
> Maybe I missed something, if one editor accepts or rejects an article, that
> is in essence a peer-review of 1, if 2 editors accept or reject, that is a
> peer-review of 2. I was not suggesting that we adopt a full blown
> peer-review process, but I was suggesting that having at least 2 editors
> concur on accept, reject or accept with modifications would be a logical way
> to proceed.
>
> You'll never get an argument from me about the failings of peer-review, I
> face that faulty system many times a year as we publish papers in journals
> like PNAS and J. Neurochemistry. But Citizendium needs some type of system
> in place to decide what is worthy of publication, and what is not. Based on
> my many experiences with publishing, a single editor making that type of
> decision is not a good way to proceed.
>
> JRM
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cz-editcouncil-bounces at voltaire.citizendium.org
> [mailto:cz-editcouncil-bounces at voltaire.citizendium.org] On
> Behalf Of M.
> BALDWIN-EDWARDS
> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 10:47 AM
> To: The Citizendium Editorial Council
> Subject: [Cz-editcouncil] peer-review and relevance to Citizendium
>
> Dear all,
>
> Just a quick note of extreme disagreement on peer review. My own experience,
> coupled with that of many colleagues, is that the process is now massively
> flawed -- at least in the case of social sciences. When I was Editor of a
> significant journal, I was also under great pressure to accept articles
> without proper refereeing, although the publisher would vehemently deny this
> in public. I suppose that very popular journals can afford to reject >90%,
> but even these have problems with finding competent referees for this
> process to work properly.
>
> I mention this only because it would be silly for Citizendium to try to live
> up to a standard which is professed but not adhered to by academic journals.
>
> Martin Baldwin-Edwards
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John R Moffett"
> To: "'The Citizendium Editorial Council'"
>
> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 2:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [Cz-editcouncil] Article deletion question
>
>
> > Hello All,
> >
> > The general rule for peer-reviewed science journals is that a minimum of
> > 2,
> > and preferably 3 editors from the field review the article, and make 1 of
> > 3
> > recommendations: accept, accept with modifications, or reject. Reject
> > means
> > that the article is hopelessly flawed. Accept with modifications means
> > that
> > there are significant problems or areas that need attention and these
> > issues
> > need to be pointed out by the editors who review the article. The author
> > is
> > then given time to make appropriate changes before resubmission. The
> > article
> > is then re-reviewed by the editors who then give a recommendation to
> > accept
> > or reject.
> >
> > Rejected articles are not archived or kept anywhere. But keep in mind that
> > many very good articles (which were eventually published elsewhere) have
> > been rejected by this process, which is only as good as the reviewers.
> >
> > John M.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cz-editcouncil-bounces at voltaire.citizendium.org
> > [mailto:cz-editcouncil-bounces at voltaire.citizendium.org]
> On Behalf Of
> > David
> > Goodman
> > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 3:54 AM
> > To: The Citizendium Editorial Council
> > Subject: Re: [Cz-editcouncil] Article deletion question
> >
> > As a layman, relying of the format of the article and the use and nature
> > of
> > the references as much as the arguments, it seems obvious that the article
> > is advocacy, rather than encyclopedic--and even by Wikipedia standards
> > would
> > probably be nominated for deletion as an essay.
> >
> > Holding it for future work by those qualified seems an obvious temporary
> > solution. At Wikipedia, any one of a number of people would undoubtedly
> > start editing to improve it, but in a non-systematic way.
> > We should wait for people prepared to do it properly.
> >
> > But it is possible that the author might be prepared to revise the article
> > in the light of the unanimous criticism that it is receiving, and in all
> > fairness, that should be tried first. Even if it needs substantial
> > rewriting
> > after that, there will be a better starting point. And we might get better
> > future work from the author involved.
> >
> > DavidGoodman
> >
> >
> > On 4/27/07, Nguyen Anh (DAM) wrote:
> >> Dear All,
> >>
> >> As we all know, the difference between Citizendium and Wikipedia is to
> >> have a reliable encyclopedia, with an "expert oversight". In this
> >> precise case, it seems obvious that the "Binary economics" has its
> >> place on Wikipedia, but not here as there is much controversy on that
> > subject.
> >>
> >> I perfectly agreed that as, up to now, there is no large acceptance of
> >> that theory in the Economics field, measured by the number of articles
> >> published in peer-reviewed journals. Futhermore, Citizendium should
> >> not be the place where everyone is coming with his own theory, but the
> >> place where al accepted theory is presented.
> >>
> >> So, I do agree that this article should be kept in archives and not be
> >> seen by all users. Someone belonging to the Econ Group (I am from...
> >> But more from the finance side.. sorry) should try to write a short
> >> and neutral article on it.
> >>
> >> Anh
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: cz-editcouncil-bounces at mail.citizendium.org
> >> [mailto:cz-editcouncil-bounces at mail.citizendium.org] On
> Behalf Of
> >> Larry Sanger
> >> Sent: 27 April 2007 00:33
> >> To: 'The Citizendium Editorial Council'
> >> Subject: [Cz-editcouncil] Article deletion question
> >>
> >> Dear Editorial Council members,
> >>
> >> I'm going to try to have something like a kick-off mail in your box
> >> this evening, but I wanted to get your input on something in the
> >> meantime.
> >>
> >> We have a shortage of active Economics editors. I asked several who
> >> are involved to comment on this article, which struck me as being
> >> quite
> >> biased:
> >>
> >> http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Binary_economics
> >>
> >> And we got a comment back, here:
> >>
> >>
> http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Talk:Binary_economics#Editorial_Opinion
> >>
> >> The opinion seems to me to entail that we should delete the article.
> >> In particular, two items:
> >>
> >> (1) This comment is most important: "I do not think the current entry
> >> can be revised to make a suitable entry for Citizendium."
> >>
> >> (2) The article "reads as promotional literature."
> >>
> >> Our rules at present state (see
> >>
> http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Article_Deletion_Policy)
> that the
> >> first two comments in particular are grounds for an *editor* to make a
> >> decision to delete an article outright.
> >>
> >> So I would like to ask your opinion about a question of *process* here:
> >> should we, in the absence of any other active economics editor
> >> weighing in on the matter, rely on the opinion of a single editor to
> >> delete an article on the above grounds?
> >>
> >> --Larry
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >
> > --
> > David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S.
> > _______________________________________________
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-- 
David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S.