[Cz-editcouncil] Resolution 0001: motion to amend
Larry Sanger
sanger at citizendium.org
Wed May 9 19:31:45 CDT 2007
Matt, thanks, I appreciate it.
There is already something in the amendment similar to what you suggest.
Here's the language:
The Chair is expected not to vote on a resolution, except when his or her
vote might be expected to have an effect on the outcome (i.e., the vote is
very close), when he has stepped down temporarily as Chair for the
management of a given resolution, or when a secret vote (a vote by ballot)
is taken.
That's in "Voting on resolutions". Actually, come to think of it, this
belongs in the "Voting in general" section, since it concerns all votes, not
just ones on resolutions.
"Tie-breaking" is just slightly too narrow, as it happens. Suppose the vote
is 16 yes, 15 no, and a majority--defined as over 50%--is needed for
passage. Then, if the Chair votes "No," he/she creates a tie and thereby
defeats the motion.
--Larry
-----Original Message-----
From: cz-editcouncil-bounces at mail.citizendium.org
[mailto:cz-editcouncil-bounces at mail.citizendium.org] On Behalf Of DAVID
INNIS
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 8:03 PM
To: The Citizendium Editorial Council
Subject: Re: [Cz-editcouncil] Resolution 0001: motion to amend
Thank you Larry for your exhaustive work. The only comment I would suggest
at this point is that I think we should go ahead and give the Chair the
ability to break a tie vote as I believe is customary on most committees.
We can go ahead and wait till this amendment is adopted and I can propose a
new amendment since this one is so large already.
Matt
Larry Sanger <sanger at citizendium.org> wrote:
Thanks, Andy--the motion has been seconded, so discussion on this list (per
the rules stated) is open.
A reply on the list not only suffices, it's the only way to take an official
action, according to the rules. That is, all motions have to be made on the
list, or the Chair will not recognize them as having been made.
--Larry
-----Original Message-----
From: cz-editcouncil-bounces at mail.citizendium.org
[mailto:cz-editcouncil-bounces at mail.citizendium.org] On Behalf Of Andrew N.
Carpenter
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 5:50 PM
To: The Citizendium Editorial Council
Subject: Re: [Cz-editcouncil] Resolution 0001: motion to amend
Larry, I'll second your amendment. (As a matter of process, does a reply to
the list suffice?)
All the best,
Andy.
On 5/9/07, Larry Sanger <sanger at citizendium.org> wrote:
Dear Council Members,
I have three items here: (1) I am moving to amend Resolution 0001 by
replacing it with Amendment 1 (http://tinyurl.com/2fh8rn); (2) I'm calling
for a second (anybody?); (3) if there are no objections, I propose to use 72
hours to debate the motion to amend (bear in mind, I'm talking about the
motion to AMEND, not the motion to actually adopt the resolution itself);
and (4) I want to ask your indulgence in including discussion of edits to
Amendment 1 with the discussion of Amendment 1 itself.
===========================
(1) Motion to amend
I move to amend Resolution 0001 by replacing it with Amendment 1:
http://tinyurl.com/2fh8rn <--PLEASE LOOK AT THAT ONE
If you would like to view all the differences at once between the originally
submitted resolution and this GREATLY EXPANDED version, see this URL:
http://tinyurl.com/3bfs4v If you want to view what edits I made serially, I
recommend starting with this page: http://tinyurl.com/2lzvz2 and then
repeatedly pressing the "Next diff -->" link, at the top of the right-hand
column. (Could be fun.)
I've made MANY changes and additions. Here are the most significant:
* A Secretary position is created, who is chair of a Rules
Committee, which helps keep the process moving along.
* Made an "Outline of the process."
* Clarified what Chair actions are, that they can be overridden by a
majority vote, and that the Chair should solicit advice from the Rules
Committee and the Council as a whole.
* Created a Council Log:
http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Editorial_Council_Log
* Allowed a motion to vote on the issue of purview; allowed the
ed-in-chief and chief constable both the right to make this motion (although
not to vote).
* Clarified that the minimum times for discussion and voting are,
indeed, *minimums*.
* Specified that the Chair is expected not to discuss or vote, or,
if he/she does, that the Secretary steps in to manage the resolution in
question.
* Greatly expanded the account of various motions, including the
motion to amend.
* Created a (hopefully helpful) Table of Motions.
Here is a more exhaustive list of changes: http://tinyurl.com/34dt56 I
believe I addressed virtually every single one of the concerns anybody
expressed. It was a lot of work!
===========================
(2) Second?
The rules state that for a motion to carry, I need a second. Will anyone
second my motion to amend Resolution 0001 per Amendment 1
( <http://tinyurl.com/2fh8rn> http://tinyurl.com/2fh8rn) ?
===========================
(3) 72 hours to debate on the motion to amend
If there are no objections, I propose to use 72 hours (three days) to debate
the motion to amend--i.e ., to debate the language of Amendment 1 itself
(http://tinyurl.com/2fh8rn). Debate, we'll say, begins officially at 11 PM
UTC Wednesday, and to use up 72 hours of NON-WEEKEND time, the debate will
close Wednesday at 9 AM UTC. But since that's the middle of the night for
me, we will close debate Wednesday at 3 PM UTC (10 AM Eastern).
Why so long? I think it will be easier to address any further concerns you
might have as we debate the amendment, than it would be *first* to accept
this amendment and *then* to make further amendments (each of which
theoretically requires discussion and voting) to take care of your concerns.
NOTE: according to the rules, you can use this list to debate motions (just
not the resolution itself). Here is what the rules say:
In order to expedite business, discussion of motions may take place on the
mailing list immediately after the motion is made. No one should post more
than two messages, each limited to 350 words, about any motion, although any
Member may post a link to a longer discussion elsewhere. Members are
encouraged, but are not obligated, to read discussions of motions posted
elsewhere.
This means that you may make exactly two brief statements on this list about
the motion to amend. If you want to make any *further* discussion of it,
please do so on the Forums.
===========================
(4) Request to fold discussion of edits to Amendment 1 in with discussion of
Amendment 1 itself
One last item. I imagine I will be making some further edits, in accordance
with your feedback. I will exhaustively report whatever FURTHER edits I
happen to make, if any. Unless there is any objection, I want the Council
to consider discussion of Amendment 1 *also* to count as discussion of any
*further edits* to Amendment 1. I will make my report of edits I've made
*at least* 24 hours before the close of discussion.
If there are any last-minute edits, I'll give you *at least* 24 hours to
react to them before voting on the motion to amend. And bear in
mind...we're not even talking about voting on the resolution itself yet.
--Larry
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