[Cz-editcouncil] Resolution 0001: motion to amend
Nguyen Anh (DAM)
Anh.Nguyen at dexia-am.com
Thu May 10 06:16:06 CDT 2007
Well, in my sense, I think that in the case 16 yes / 15 no, the Chair
should have the right to vote. If he is against the resolution, then we
would have 16/16 and a rejection of the proposed resolution. This
extrem vote could be seen, from my point of view as a vote right.
I think that allowing more than one resolution to be discussed at one
time would complicated the work of the Council... as we will use the
mailing-list it could have as consequence that to many mails would be
sent.
Anh
_____
From: cz-editcouncil-bounces at mail.citizendium.org
[mailto:cz-editcouncil-bounces at mail.citizendium.org] On Behalf Of DAVID
INNIS
Sent: 10 May 2007 04:33
To: The Citizendium Editorial Council
Subject: Re: [Cz-editcouncil] Resolution 0001: motion to amend
Hmm, well, if the count is 16 yes 15 no then the Chair does not vote.
It only votes if it is 15 yes, 15 no. In that case the Chair is the tie
breaker. It really should not happen often and only if there is an even
number of voters.
By the way, we are allowed to abstain, right... do we need to mention
that?
Matt
Larry Sanger <sanger at citizendium.org> wrote:
Matt, thanks, I appreciate it.
There is already something in the amendment similar to what you
suggest. Here's the language:
The Chair is expected not to vote on a resolution,
except when his or her vote might be expected to have an effect on the
outcome (i.e., the vote is very close), when he has stepped down
temporarily as Chair for the management of a given resolution, or when a
secret vote (a vote by ballot) is taken.
That's in "Voting on resolutions". Actually, come to think of
it, this belongs in the "Voting in general" section, since it concerns
all votes, not just ones on resolutions.
"Tie-breaking" is just slightly too narrow, as it happens.
Suppose the vote is 16 yes, 15 no, and a majority--defined as over
50%--is needed for passage. Then, if the Chair votes "No," he/she
creates a tie and thereby defeats the motion.
--Larry
-----Original Message-----
From: cz-editcouncil-bounces at mail.citizendium.org
[mailto:cz-editcouncil-bounces at mail.citizendium.org] On Behalf Of DAVID
INNIS
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 8:03 PM
To: The Citizendium Editorial Council
Subject: Re: [Cz-editcouncil] Resolution 0001: motion to
amend
Thank you Larry for your exhaustive work. The only
comment I would suggest at this point is that I think we should go ahead
and give the Chair the ability to break a tie vote as I believe is
customary on most committees. We can go ahead and wait till this
amendment is adopted and I can propose a new amendment since this one is
so large already.
Matt
Larry Sanger <sanger at citizendium.org> wrote:
Thanks, Andy--the motion has been seconded, so
discussion on this list (per the rules stated) is open.
A reply on the list not only suffices, it's the
only way to take an official action, according to the rules. That is,
all motions have to be made on the list, or the Chair will not recognize
them as having been made.
--Larry
-----Original Message-----
From:
cz-editcouncil-bounces at mail.citizendium.org
[mailto:cz-editcouncil-bounces at mail.citizendium.org] On Behalf Of Andrew
N. Carpenter
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 5:50 PM
To: The Citizendium Editorial Council
Subject: Re: [Cz-editcouncil] Resolution
0001: motion to amend
Larry, I'll second your amendment. (As a
matter of process, does a reply to the list suffice?)
All the best,
Andy.
On 5/9/07, Larry Sanger
<sanger at citizendium.org> wrote:
Dear Council Members,
I have three items here: (1) I am moving
to amend Resolution 0001 by
replacing it with Amendment 1
(http://tinyurl.com/2fh8rn); (2) I'm calling
for a second (anybody?); (3) if there
are no objections, I propose to use 72
hours to debate the motion to amend
(bear in mind, I'm talking about the
motion to AMEND, not the motion to
actually adopt the resolution itself);
and (4) I want to ask your indulgence in
including discussion of edits to
Amendment 1 with the discussion of
Amendment 1 itself.
===========================
(1) Motion to amend
I move to amend Resolution 0001 by
replacing it with Amendment 1:
http://tinyurl.com/2fh8rn <--PLEASE LOOK
AT THAT ONE
If you would like to view all the
differences at once between the originally
submitted resolution and this GREATLY
EXPANDED version, see this URL:
http://tinyurl.com/3bfs4v If you want
to view what edits I made serially, I
recommend starting with this page:
http://tinyurl.com/2lzvz2 and then
repeatedly pressing the "Next diff -->"
link, at the top of the right-hand
column. (Could be fun.)
I've made MANY changes and additions.
Here are the most significant:
* A Secretary position is
created, who is chair of a Rules
Committee, which helps keep the process
moving along.
* Made an "Outline of the
process."
* Clarified what Chair actions
are, that they can be overridden by a
majority vote, and that the Chair should
solicit advice from the Rules
Committee and the Council as a whole.
* Created a Council Log:
http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Editorial_Council_Log
* Allowed a motion to vote on
the issue of purview; allowed the
ed-in-chief and chief constable both the
right to make this motion (although
not to vote).
* Clarified that the minimum
times for discussion and voting are,
indeed, *minimums*.
* Specified that the Chair is
expected not to discuss or vote, or,
if he/she does, that the Secretary steps
in to manage the resolution in
question.
* Greatly expanded the account
of various motions, including the
motion to amend.
* Created a (hopefully helpful)
Table of Motions.
Here is a more exhaustive list of
changes: http://tinyurl.com/34dt56 I
believe I addressed virtually every
single one of the concerns anybody
expressed. It was a lot of work!
===========================
(2) Second?
The rules state that for a motion to
carry, I need a second. Will anyone
second my motion to amend Resolution
0001 per Amendment 1
( http://tinyurl.com/2fh8rn
<http://tinyurl.com/2fh8rn> ) ?
===========================
(3) 72 hours to debate on the motion to
amend
If there are no objections, I propose to
use 72 hours (three days) to debate
the motion to amend--i.e ., to debate
the language of Amendment 1 itself
(http://tinyurl.com/2fh8rn). Debate,
we'll say, begins officially at 11 PM
UTC Wednesday, and to use up 72 hours of
NON-WEEKEND time, the debate will
close Wednesday at 9 AM UTC. But since
that's the middle of the night for
me, we will close debate Wednesday at 3
PM UTC (10 AM Eastern).
Why so long? I think it will be easier
to address any further concerns you
might have as we debate the amendment,
than it would be *first* to accept
this amendment and *then* to make
further amendments (each of which
theoretically requires discussion and
voting) to take care of your concerns.
NOTE: according to the rules, you can
use this list to debate motions (just
not the resolution itself). Here is
what the rules say:
In order to expedite business,
discussion of motions may take place on the
mailing list immediately after the
motion is made. No one should post more
than two messages, each limited to 350
words, about any motion, although any
Member may post a link to a longer
discussion elsewhere. Members are
encouraged, but are not obligated, to
read discussions of motions posted
elsewhere.
This means that you may make exactly two
brief statements on this list about
the motion to amend. If you want to
make any *further* discussion of it,
please do so on the Forums.
===========================
(4) Request to fold discussion of edits
to Amendment 1 in with discussion of
Amendment 1 itself
One last item. I imagine I will be
making some further edits, in accordance
with your feedback. I will exhaustively
report whatever FURTHER edits I
happen to make, if any. Unless there is
any objection, I want the Council
to consider discussion of Amendment 1
*also* to count as discussion of any
*further edits* to Amendment 1. I will
make my report of edits I've made
*at least* 24 hours before the close of
discussion.
If there are any last-minute edits, I'll
give you *at least* 24 hours to
react to them before voting on the
motion to amend. And bear in
mind...we're not even talking about
voting on the resolution itself yet.
--Larry
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