Talk:Poutine: Difference between revisions

From Citizendium
Jump to navigation Jump to search
imported>George Swan
(reply)
imported>Hayford Peirce
(→‎I disagree...: If I were Howard Huge, I would dispatch my hotel manager to fly to Quebec to bring me some back (I later became friends with that guy when he ran the Royal Tahitian))
 
(8 intermediate revisions by 3 users not shown)
Line 7: Line 7:


Isn't poutine strictly served with [[french fries]]? --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 12:45, 19 November 2007 (CST)
Isn't poutine strictly served with [[french fries]]? --[[User:Robert W King|Robert W King]] 12:45, 19 November 2007 (CST)
== I disagree... ==
[http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=Poutine&diff=100263791&oldid=100220216 This revision] had the edit summary:
:{| class="wikitable" border="1"
|
:the use of "deep fried potatoes" is vague and misleading: it is made with fries, pure and simple
|}
I disagree.  "French fries" is a local idiom -- as the "Freedom Fries" incident makes clear.  In England one doesn't order "Fish and french fries" -- one orders "Fish and Chips".  In England a "chip" is (was?) what ''Americans'' call a french fry.  What Americans call a "potato chip" is a "potato crisp".
I suggest it is better for the article to be written so it can be understood by those who are not native speakers of English, or who come from a section of the anglosphere where "french fry" is not the conventional term.
So I reverted it.
Cheers!  [[User:George Swan|George Swan]] 16:11, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
:Hi George, I hesitate to argue with you, since you attended the U. of Waterloo, in Canada, and I haven't spent much time in Canada.  But my own impression, gathered from *long* discussions (arguments) at both WP and CZ in the articles about "french fries" vs. "chips", was that the *North American* term, not just USA, was "french fries." "Chips" in England, sure, but not in Canada.  Can you give some citations for your statement? For instance, I just clicked on Harvey's which is the second largest fast food franchise in Canada and *their* menu says "French fries."  Check for yourself at http://www.harveys.ca/eng/index.php Bon appetit! [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 16:22, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
::The official McDonalds site for Canada calls them "French fries" -- see http://www.mcdonalds.ca/NutritionCalculator/index_en.html, where you can get the calory info for their "poutine" -- the picture of which, sure looks like french fries, although some websites, blogs, I guess, have said that the fries Mcdonalds uses for poutine are *slightly* larger than their regular ones.... [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 17:48, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Our own article on [[French fries]] says in the lede: "'''French fries''', or french-fried potatoes, or simply fries, are generally thin sticks of potato that have been deep-fried. They are similar to the chips eaten in the United Kingdom, Ireland, and the Commonwealth (excluding Canada)." So I think that unless you come up with some pretty good citations to the contrary that the article's usage of "french fries" should be restored. [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 18:22, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
::::You are absolutely correct that strips of deep-fried potatoes are generally called "french fries" in Anglophone Canada. 
::::Shall I try to paraphrase the point you are trying to make?  No offense if I get it wrong.  Are you saying that since Poutine is a Canadian dish the Canadian terms for the components should be those used in the article? 
::::It is a Quebec dish, from the entirely Francophone interior.  So may I question why what deep fried potatoes are called in Anglophone Canada is relevant?
::::I was not trying to claim that the potato food was not called "french fries" in Anglophone Canada, but rather that it was preferable to use a phrase that described the potato component of the dish -- even for those who didn't know, or would have to think, about what a "french fry" was.
::::Cheers!  [[User:George Swan|George Swan]] 21:44, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::I was primarily concerned by the fact that it seemed to me (and whoever had made an earlier revert) that "deep-fried potatoes" could be taken to mean *large* pieces of potatoes, quarters or halves, even. I've just added "slices of" to the lede sentence, which ought to satisfy all of us.  And I removed "deep-fried" from another sentence as being redundant. (I'd sure like to try a really *good* one -- I've never had it.  I *love* tourtiere, however, which I make from time to time, and I bought some *great* "smoked meat" sandwiches in Quebec City once....) [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 21:59, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
::::::I happen to think the corned beef at Bens (no apostrophe) is better than the smoked meat. Tabernac! [[User:Howard C. Berkowitz|Howard C. Berkowitz]] 22:08, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::::My own home-brined corned beef is probably better than either, but i wouldn't mind a one-week jaunt through Quebec trying smoked meat a couple of times a day. Just to be sure. [[User:Hayford Peirce|Hayford Peirce]] 22:39, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 17:39, 27 October 2008

This article is developing and not approved.
Main Article
Discussion
Related Articles  [?]
Bibliography  [?]
External Links  [?]
Citable Version  [?]
 
To learn how to update the categories for this article, see here. To update categories, edit the metadata template.
 Definition A Quebec dish of fresh cheese curds, strips of deep fried potatoes, and gravy—from the Quebec French word for "mess". [d] [e]
Checklist and Archives
 Workgroup category Food Science [Editors asked to check categories]
 Talk Archive none  English language variant Canadian English

Is "sacrée poutine" a French Canadian word (phrase) -- I don't find the word "poutine" in any of my 3 French dictionaries, including my 2-volume Larousse? Hayford Peirce 10:16, 19 November 2007 (CST)

Yes, as in the French quote, and its translation, in the article, Anglophone Canadians are routinely informed poutime=="mess". Cheers! George Swan 22:04, 23 March 2008 (CDT)

Potato fragments

Isn't poutine strictly served with french fries? --Robert W King 12:45, 19 November 2007 (CST)

I disagree...

This revision had the edit summary:

the use of "deep fried potatoes" is vague and misleading: it is made with fries, pure and simple

I disagree. "French fries" is a local idiom -- as the "Freedom Fries" incident makes clear. In England one doesn't order "Fish and french fries" -- one orders "Fish and Chips". In England a "chip" is (was?) what Americans call a french fry. What Americans call a "potato chip" is a "potato crisp".

I suggest it is better for the article to be written so it can be understood by those who are not native speakers of English, or who come from a section of the anglosphere where "french fry" is not the conventional term.

So I reverted it.

Cheers! George Swan 16:11, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi George, I hesitate to argue with you, since you attended the U. of Waterloo, in Canada, and I haven't spent much time in Canada. But my own impression, gathered from *long* discussions (arguments) at both WP and CZ in the articles about "french fries" vs. "chips", was that the *North American* term, not just USA, was "french fries." "Chips" in England, sure, but not in Canada. Can you give some citations for your statement? For instance, I just clicked on Harvey's which is the second largest fast food franchise in Canada and *their* menu says "French fries." Check for yourself at http://www.harveys.ca/eng/index.php Bon appetit! Hayford Peirce 16:22, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
The official McDonalds site for Canada calls them "French fries" -- see http://www.mcdonalds.ca/NutritionCalculator/index_en.html, where you can get the calory info for their "poutine" -- the picture of which, sure looks like french fries, although some websites, blogs, I guess, have said that the fries Mcdonalds uses for poutine are *slightly* larger than their regular ones.... Hayford Peirce 17:48, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
Our own article on French fries says in the lede: "French fries, or french-fried potatoes, or simply fries, are generally thin sticks of potato that have been deep-fried. They are similar to the chips eaten in the United Kingdom, Ireland, and the Commonwealth (excluding Canada)." So I think that unless you come up with some pretty good citations to the contrary that the article's usage of "french fries" should be restored. Hayford Peirce 18:22, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
You are absolutely correct that strips of deep-fried potatoes are generally called "french fries" in Anglophone Canada.
Shall I try to paraphrase the point you are trying to make? No offense if I get it wrong. Are you saying that since Poutine is a Canadian dish the Canadian terms for the components should be those used in the article?
It is a Quebec dish, from the entirely Francophone interior. So may I question why what deep fried potatoes are called in Anglophone Canada is relevant?
I was not trying to claim that the potato food was not called "french fries" in Anglophone Canada, but rather that it was preferable to use a phrase that described the potato component of the dish -- even for those who didn't know, or would have to think, about what a "french fry" was.
Cheers! George Swan 21:44, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
I was primarily concerned by the fact that it seemed to me (and whoever had made an earlier revert) that "deep-fried potatoes" could be taken to mean *large* pieces of potatoes, quarters or halves, even. I've just added "slices of" to the lede sentence, which ought to satisfy all of us. And I removed "deep-fried" from another sentence as being redundant. (I'd sure like to try a really *good* one -- I've never had it. I *love* tourtiere, however, which I make from time to time, and I bought some *great* "smoked meat" sandwiches in Quebec City once....) Hayford Peirce 21:59, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
I happen to think the corned beef at Bens (no apostrophe) is better than the smoked meat. Tabernac! Howard C. Berkowitz 22:08, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
My own home-brined corned beef is probably better than either, but i wouldn't mind a one-week jaunt through Quebec trying smoked meat a couple of times a day. Just to be sure. Hayford Peirce 22:39, 27 October 2008 (UTC)