Talk:Dog/Draft: Difference between revisions

Latest revision as of 09:51, 4 March 2013

Plan for this article (Dog)

This article is aimed to be a reasonably comprehensive but brief introduction to a single (sub)species. Although the article aims to be biologically correct to the scientist, it is aimed at the general reader who is much more likely to be interested in dogs as pets. That interest is used as something of a lure to bring the reader to other biological and social topics in CZ, but is always satisfied by exploring the most pertinent aspects of (1) why dogs make good pets, (2) proper care of pet dogs (3) important factors in choosing and training a pet dog (breed, etc). The language should always be plain, with special terms clearly explained. When possible, the language should be entertaining rather than dull.

APPROVED Version 1.1

Discussion for Version 1.1 stopped here. Please continue further discussion under this break.

Re March 01 2008 approval of Dog/Draft

Congratulations to Aleta Curry and her collaborators for picking up Nancy Sculerati's and her collaborators start of Dog in Dog/Draft, and developing it into a new improved version approved March 01 2008. Let's keep it going. --Anthony.Sebastian 19:45, 29 February 2008 (CST)

heat and dogs

I have heard that German Shepard Dogs are especially sensitive to heat and humidity. Is there a list of dogs subject to easily becoming overheated? David E. Volk 13:59, 14 March 2008 (CDT)

Good question. It seems to me that my big dogs get hotter quicker and cool down slower than the little fellas, but I've not noticed breed-specificity. As far as I know, all dogs are susceptible to heat because they have limited sweating ability. Not a problem if they can get into the shade and have clean water at hand, big problem if some nimno locks 'em in a car. But then, you and I wouldn't do well locked in a closed car in the sun, either. My guess--just based on logic--would be that brachycephalic breeds (those poor panting pugs!) fare the worst. It bears looking into and I'll put it on my to do list to ask a vet. Aleta Curry 16:38, 14 March 2008 (CDT)

Surface to volume ratio would favour cooling of smaller dogs. At the lower extreme this is why shrews have a problem staying warm, at least that's what I learned in school. Chris Day (talk) 16:53, 14 March 2008 (CDT)

I was watching a TV show about dogs being trained to be police dogs, and they specifically said that Shepards really need to be watched, and then a few minutes later their dog nearly collapsed and was rushed to the vet in the back of a truck. I have seen the same thing in my Shepard/Rottweiller mix, just on a long walk 1 hour, in the summer. Of course, Galveston, Texas is pretty hot and humid. David E. Volk 18:25, 14 March 2008 (CDT)

I was at a dog show yesterday. Did I remember to ask? Noooo! But there'll be a couple of big shows and specialites in the next coupla weeks, so I'll check this out some more. Meanwhile, I found this gem, quoting from: Mike Richards, DVM in response to an inquiry about a Mastiff:

Heat stroke in dogs is not all that uncommon. Dogs do not have an efficient method of handling heat stress because they don't sweat and they don't seem to figure out that they shouldn't get excited or work hard in the heat, either. Heat stroke is most common in the large breeds and in dogs with short noses, so mastiffs are in the group of dogs that are most susceptible to this problem.

Death from heat stroke can occur pretty quickly. The shortest interval between exposure to high heat extremes and death is about 20 minutes, based on our practice experience, but these have been "closed car" cases. It is probably more common for dogs to experience heat stroke in the first few days they are acclimating to heat and for it to occur in conjunction with excitement or exercise. Most dogs probably take an hour or more to develop heat stroke in these circumstances but if they were struggling with the heat prior to exercising it is possible that the problem could develop more quickly. Any illness that is contributing to an increase in body temperature can also shorten the time period for signs to become severe.

Aleta Curry 00:21, 16 March 2008 (CDT)

This is why Disambiguation is my despair

Why in the name of twelve bags of quick-drying cement am I receiving a message not allowing me to use canine as a parent topic of Dog????

I mean, really, canine as a tooth is usually adjectival; its use as a noun is contextual and/or specialised. Not to mention that the canine tooth is named for the dog.

Why do I now have to go look this up? Why is life hard?

And there was wailing and the gnashing of teeth, canine and all.

Aleta Curry 18:13, 6 June 2008 (CDT)

Okay, I found the problem: canine was redirected to dog. That's not quite correct, as a dog is a canine but a canine is not necessarily a dog. So, in the body of the article, canine was blue-linked but if you clicked on it, you were taken back to dog because of the redirect. What do you call that? Anyway, I've placed a stub and removed the redirect and created a metadata and now I'll do do a definition and something else I forget and my husband is bugging me for the computer so we'll see how far I get.

This has of course interrupted what I was doing, which was completing categories and catalogues and things, but I'll get back to it.

Aleta Curry 18:34, 6 June 2008 (CDT)

Were I to be pedantic, I might point out that a dog is a canid, while a dog is also a canine animal. It's common practice to use the taxonomic adjective as a noun for a great many species, and making observations that a hominid is human. Language is even more of a problem; I don't think I understand as much Cattish as Mr. Clark and Rhonda understand English. I do manage a minimal level. Mrrrp? Howard C. Berkowitz 18:50, 6 June 2008 (CDT)

Umm, Howard?

Canines are canids but canids ain't canines

Jackals and wolfies confuse on the same lines

The ambiguity that tax'nomy brings

These are a few of my fav-our-ite things

Aleta Curry 22:02, 7 June 2008 (CDT)

Dogs domesticated us?

A scientific article claiming it was not so much that we domesticated dogs as vice versa.[1] Sandy Harris 13:07, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Cf. [2] Peter Jackson 15:51, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-{{checklist
+{{subpages}}
-|                 abc = Dog
-|                cat1 = Biology
-|                cat2 =
-|                cat3 =
-|           cat_check = n
-|              status = 1
-|         underlinked = n
-|             cleanup = y
-|                  by = - [[User:Rilson Versuri|Versuri]] 18:05, 1 April 2007 (CDT);[[User:Larry Sanger|Larry Sanger]] 09:35, 21 March 2007 (CDT); [[User:Luke Brandt|luke]] 00:05, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
-}}
-==Approval area Version 1==
-{{ToApprove|editor=David Tribe|url=http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=Dog&oldid=100066752|group=Biology|date=April 8th 2007}}
-One editor approval.[[User:David Tribe|David Tribe]] 22:59, 31 March 2007 (CDT)
-updated URL [[User:David Tribe|David Tribe]] 09:00, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
 == Plan for this article (Dog) ==
@@ Line 24: / Line 8: @@
 When possible, the language should be entertaining rather than dull.
-== Discussion ==
-. Changed the first sentence "Dog is a mammal...in the order.... The entire Classification is already there in a box, and this sort of introduction is horribly boring,
-== What not to feed dogs ==
-Hi Nancy, I like dogs but I don't know much about them.  There's all sorts of stuff in the section you deleted that I didn't know.  Maybe that's because it's false or uncertain (and you can't know false or uncertain stuff), but surely not ''all'' of it is false or uncertain?  And remember, 11-year-olds will be reading this article, and it might be news to them that you shouldn't give dogs gum. --[[User:Larry Sanger|Larry Sanger]] 14:42, 15 December 2006 (CST)
-We can address this! [[User:Nancy Sculerati MD|Nancy Sculerati MD]] 07:41, 16 December 2006 (CST)
-I started in on the "gum" issue and here's the problem. No, you shouldn't give dogs gum, sure enough. You also shouldn't give them: erasers, lipstick, mouthwash, hard candies, caramels, charcoal, marshmallows, mortar, and a list of household items that goes on and on. All of these things are things dogs will likely accept, of course, especially if lovingly offered by their buddy, the 11 year old kid.  But- If we put in "gum", but we leave out something else that seems equally appropriate to the person who has to be explictly told ''not'' to give gum, we are almost implying that it's only gum you really have to worry about. Further, if we mention gum as a no=no for'' dogs'', what about cats? Parrots? Rabbits? Gerbils? I guess there are those people, the sort of person who lacks common sense understanding, who might assume that if a "food" like gum is specifically mentioned as forbidden for ''dog'', but left it off the list for ''cats'', then it must be ok for cats. Right? So, no I prefer to use general guidelines fo feeding (that are not finished yet). :) [[User:Nancy Sculerati MD|Nancy Sculerati MD]]
-== Layout issue-need picture, please help ==
-The juxtaposition of the Classification info box and the Content Outline box leaves a big gap in the page. This is generally true for all articles containing both. Not having the capability to come up with a better layout (hint to somebody who does) I would like a large picture of dogs in all kinds of activities that nicely balances in that space. A collage would do, as would a large picture that has a lot going on (dog show- field trials- etc.) Please help you visual arts/photo mavens!! [[User:Nancy Sculerati MD|Nancy Sculerati MD]] 07:46, 16 December 2006 (CST)
-:The gap between the Contents menu and the infobox is often a problem. The main problem is how big is the gap? The higher your screen resolution and the bigger your monitor, the bigger the gap. On my laptop, there's not such a big gap. You have to be careful what you put in this place. If you put in a image that fills all of your screen, it might break the layout in my screen.
-:It is possible to let the article text fill this space. This simply requires adding a tag in the page markup that floats the content menu to the left or the right (why you would float right I don't know). The text will then fill the center area. Look up the WP help pages will tell you how (I don't have WP access form here - China) The advantage of filling with text rather than an image is that the text will automatically wrap it's self to fill the space perfectly, no matter what size that space is. [[User:Derek Harkness|Derek Harkness]] 05:16, 20 December 2006 (CST)
-Do you think at the very end of the article we could have an alphabetical list of all the kinds of dogs? [[User:Thomas E Kelly|-Tom Kelly]] [[User talk:Thomas E Kelly|(Talk)]] 15:01, 4 February 2007 (CST)
+==APPROVED Version 1.1==
+<div class="usermessage plainlinks">Discussion for [http://en.citizendium.org/wiki?title=Dog/Draft&oldid=100275920 Version 1.1] stopped here. Please continue further discussion under this break. </div>
-There is another article - [[Dog breed]], that I think such a list might be helpful. [[User:Nancy Sculerati MD|Nancy Sculerati MD]] 15:31, 4 February 2007 (CST) Or maybe there should be a separate "LIst of Dog Breeds" that both could link to? What do you think? [[User:Nancy Sculerati MD|Nancy Sculerati MD]] 15:32, 4 February 2007 (CST)
+== Re March 01 2008 approval of [[Dog/Draft]] ==
-== removed on article cleanup ==
+Congratulations to Aleta Curry and her collaborators for picking up Nancy Sculerati's and her collaborators start of [[Dog]] in [[Dog/Draft]], and developing it into a new improved version approved March 01 2008. Let's keep it going.  --[[User:Anthony.Sebastian|Anthony.Sebastian]] 19:45, 29 February 2008 (CST)
-<nowiki>{{StatusDomesticated}}</nowiki>
-need image
+== heat and dogs ==
+I have heard that German Shepard Dogs are especially sensitive to heat and humidity.  Is there a list of dogs subject to easily becoming overheated? [[User:David E. Volk|David E. Volk]] 13:59, 14 March 2008 (CDT)
+:Good question.  It seems to me that my big dogs get hotter quicker and cool down slower than the little fellas, but I've not noticed breed-specificity.  As far as I know, all dogs are susceptible to heat because they have limited sweating ability.  Not a problem if they can get into the shade and have clean water at hand, big problem if some nimno locks 'em in a car.  But then, you and I wouldn't do well locked in a closed car in the sun, either. My guess--just based on logic--would be that brachycephalic breeds (those poor panting pugs!) fare the worst.  It bears looking into and I'll put it on my to do list to ask a vet. [[User:Aleta Curry|Aleta Curry]] 16:38, 14 March 2008 (CDT)
+::Surface to volume ratio would favour cooling of smaller dogs.  At the lower extreme this is why [[shrew]]s have a problem staying warm, at least that's what I learned in school. [[User:Chris Day|Chris Day]] [[User talk:Chris Day|(talk)]] 16:53, 14 March 2008 (CDT)
-<nowiki>image_caption = '''[[Pair of very different dogs ex.Gr.Dane and Chiuaua]]'''<br>two breeds of the domestic dog</nowiki>
+:: I was watching a TV show about dogs being trained to be police dogs, and they specifically said that Shepards really need to be watched, and then a few minutes later their dog nearly collapsed and was rushed to the vet in the back of a truck.  I have seen the same thing in my Shepard/Rottweiller mix, just on a long walk 1 hour, in the summer.  Of course, Galveston, Texas is pretty hot and humid. [[User:David E. Volk|David E. Volk]] 18:25, 14 March 2008 (CDT)
-== Add section on recent food poisonings? ==
+:::I was at a dog show yesterday.  Did I remember to ask?  Noooo!  But there'll be a couple of big shows and specialites in the next coupla weeks, so I'll check this out some more.  Meanwhile, I found this gem, quoting from: Mike Richards, DVM in response to an inquiry about a [[Mastiff]]:
-Perhaps someone, who is on top of the current and puzzling pet food poisonings involving Menu Foods, should add a section on this on-going tragey as well as last year's horrible tragedy involving  aflatoxin-contaminated products sold by Diamond Pet Food company. (A fellow member of the Iroquois Labrador Retriever Club in Western New York lost five of her Labs to liver failure after eating the contaminated food. The pain of such a loss is impossible to describe.) [[User:Andrew A. Skolnick|Andrew A. Skolnick]] 11:12, 31 March 2007 (CDT)
-==Approval==
+::::''Heat stroke in dogs is not all that uncommon. Dogs do not have an efficient method of handling heat stress because they don't sweat and they don't seem to figure out that they shouldn't get excited or work hard in the heat, either. Heat stroke is most common in the large breeds and in dogs with short noses, so mastiffs are in the group of dogs that are most susceptible to this problem.
-I've cleaned up the empty refs. As far as I'm concerned this could be approved. [[User:David Tribe|David Tribe]] 22:49, 31 March 2007 (CDT)
-==Fixed some wording in Registered Purebred Breeds ==
+::::''Death from heat stroke can occur pretty quickly. The shortest interval between exposure to high heat extremes and death is about 20 minutes, based on our practice experience, but these have been "closed car" cases. It is probably more common for dogs to experience heat stroke in the first few days they are acclimating to heat and for it to occur in conjunction with excitement or exercise. Most dogs probably take an hour or more to develop heat stroke in these circumstances but if they were struggling with the heat prior to exercising it is possible that the problem could develop more quickly.  Any illness that is contributing to an increase in body temperature can also shorten the time period for signs to become severe.''
-I rewrote part of the Registered purebred breeds section, but it needs a bit more work because I think it still is a little misleading.  I think it is confusing requirements for winning confirmation shows with requirements for registering a purebred dog.  Club-established standards (such as nose color) are guidelines for breeders in chosing the best dogs to breed and for judges to pick winners in club-sanctioned confirmation shows, but not much else. They are not standards for registering a pure bred dog. The only requirement for registration a purebred is proof that the parent dogs are the same breed and both have "full registration" with the club.
-For purebred registration, puppies do not have to meet any physical standards at all. (How could they since they're only weeks old and don't look at all like the dogs they will become?). The only requirement is that both parents be the same breed and fully registered. (Purebred dogs considered less than suitable for breeding are usually given "limited registration" - which recognizes them as purebreds, but won't allow them to compete in confirmation shows nor allow any puppies they produce to be registered. That's what I purchased when I got my Labrador from his breeder, who wanted control over her Labrador lines. But when my pup was 4 months old and showed great promise for the show ring, the breeder had AKC change his registation. So Arg is now winning first place ribbons [no points yet, sigh] and may someday sire some real great dogs.)
-Another confusing point is that purebred dogs don't have to meet the established confirmation standard to compete in other kinds of club-registered events, such as agility, obedience, rally-o, hunting, tracking, etc.  Bulldogs having a pink nose only disqualifies them from winning in confirmation shows, not in obedience or rally.  Castrated and spayed registered dogs cannot compete in the confrimation ring but they are welcome in most other kinds of club-sanctioned competitions. [[User:Andrew A. Skolnick|Andrew A. Skolnick]] 15:37, 1 April 2007 (CDT)
+:::[[User:Aleta Curry|Aleta Curry]] 00:21, 16 March 2008 (CDT)
-:Andrew, your criticism is correct and appreciated. Can you think of a way to change the wording so that the subject is explained more accurately? You are welcome to edit it yourself on the article, or paste the sentences you think have to be redone here on the talk page and we can work on it together. [[User:Nancy Sculerati|Nancy Sculerati]] 15:48, 1 April 2007 (CDT) P.S. We need a whole article on the AKC, and it will be linked here and can and should have entire sections on each kind of show, hopefully we will have other kennel clubs as well. Nancy
+== This is why Disambiguation is my despair ==
-== The Opening ==
+Why in the name of twelve bags of quick-drying cement am I receiving a message not allowing me to use [[canine]] as a parent topic of Dog????
-..and what a nice place to make my first CZ article edit! - anyhooo... i would probably seek to improve the opening couple of sentences - the opening doesn't settle the reader as best it could in my opinion, and i would take issue with '... dogs are found associated with humans,..' - perhaps 'found to be associated'?
+I mean, really, canine as a tooth is usually adjectival; its use as a noun is contextual and/or specialised.  Not to mention that the canine tooth is named for the dog.
-That's really just a little input, I may make some small changes in the next few days or so if there are no objections - or perhaps I'll submit a reworded opening here...
+Why do I now have to go look this up?  Why is life hard?
-best, [[User:Peter Godbolt|Peter Godbolt]] 22:33, 1 April 2007 (CDT)
+And there was wailing and the gnashing of teeth, canine and all.
-== Approval checklist ==
+[[User:Aleta Curry|Aleta Curry]] 18:13, 6 June 2008 (CDT)
+:Okay, I found the problem:  canine was redirected to dog.  That's not quite correct, as a dog is a canine but a canine is not necessarily a dog.  So, in the body of the article, canine was blue-linked but if you clicked on it, you were taken back to [[dog]] because of the redirect.  What do you call that?  Anyway, I've placed a stub and removed the redirect and created a metadata and now I'll do do a definition and something else I forget and my husband is bugging me for the computer so we'll see how far I get.
+:This has of course interrupted what I was doing, which was completing categories and catalogues and things, but I'll get back to it.
+:[[User:Aleta Curry|Aleta Curry]] 18:34, 6 June 2008 (CDT)
-Hello everyone, I see this article has passed the approval date.  It is not clear to me who the editors are that are involved.  Can you spell it out for me here? --[[User:D. Matt Innis|Matt Innis]] [[User talk:D. Matt Innis|(Talk)]] 08:49, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
+::Were I to be pedantic, I might point out that a dog is a canid, while a dog is also a canine animal. It's common practice to use the taxonomic adjective as a noun for a great many species, and making observations that a hominid is human. Language is even more of a problem; I don't think I understand as much Cattish as Mr. Clark and Rhonda understand English. I do manage a minimal level. Mrrrp? [[User:Howard C. Berkowitz|Howard C. Berkowitz]] 18:50, 6 June 2008 (CDT)
+:::Umm, Howard?
+::::''Canines are canids but canids ain't canines''
+::::''Jackals and wolfies confuse on the same lines''
+::::''The ambiguity that tax'nomy brings''
+::::''These are a few of my fav-our-ite things''
+:::[[User:Aleta Curry|Aleta Curry]] 22:02, 7 June 2008 (CDT)
-I am the single editor. I have no authorial involvement. But you'd better check whether the rules still say one editor. [[User:David Tribe|David Tribe]] 09:03, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
+== Dogs domesticated us? ==
-Why is the history date only showing from April 1, 2007? --[[User:D. Matt Innis|Matt Innis]] [[User talk:D. Matt Innis|(Talk)]] 09:04, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
+A scientific article claiming it was not so much that we domesticated dogs as vice versa.[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/03/130302-dog-domestic-evolution-science-wolf-wolves-human/] [[User:Sandy Harris|Sandy Harris]] 13:07, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
-I am the single editor. I have no authorial involvement. But you'd better check whether the rules still say one editor. Nancy is an author  [[User:David Tribe|David Tribe]] 09:03, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
+:Cf. [http://www.boop.org/jan/justso/cat.htm] [[User:Peter Jackson|Peter Jackson]] 15:51, 4 March 2013 (UTC)