Talk:Hong Kong

Hong Kong is not a city.

For a second time this article has been edited to start "Hong Kong City" or "Hong Kong...is a city." This just is wrong. Hong Kong is a region. It is also the name of an island but there is no City called Hong Kong. The region of Hong Kong contains several cities such as Kowloon City and Victoria City. There are many other settlements, towns and villages throughout the territories and islands of Hong Kong. Derek Harkness 08:34, 21 April 2008 (CDT)

How about "metropolitan area", then? Technically Boston doesn't include the place where Harvard is, but everyone no doubt thinks of it as "Boston". (And, yeah, I know the New Territories are mostly rural, but what makes Hong Kong famous is the urban area.) J. Noel Chiappa 15:35, 21 April 2008 (CDT)

We are here to teach people what is correct, not re-enforce their misconceptions. Hong Kong isn't a "metropolitan area". The status of Hong Kong as a "Special Administrative Region" of China is significant. It's important politically and historically for both Hong Kong and China main. If you alter then name, you change the political status of the place. For a long time, the status of Hong Kong was controversial, and some would argue it still is. It's important that we are accurate so that we are not biased. Derek Harkness 19:09, 21 April 2008 (CDT)

I think even with the general dumbing down of 'Merka, most ppl would still think of Fight Fiercely, Harvard, Fight, Fight, Fight as being in Cambridge.... Ditto for that other place that begins with an M. Or am I being an elitist? ...said Hayford Peirce (talk) 19:31, 21 April 2008

Well, you have a good point about the SAR, but... I don't recall exactly, but isn't it the largest urban nexus south of Shanghai? I mean, Hong Kong wouldn't be as important as it is if it weren't for the people, and the industry associated with them. I mean, Macao is also an SAR, but how well known is that, compared to Hong Kong? So how about having an opening that says "Hong Kong is a SAR blah-blah [talking about how the SAR concept is pretty unusual] and the largest metropolitan area in Southern China", or something like that? J. Noel Chiappa 20:14, 21 April 2008 (CDT)

But Shenzhen and Guangzhou are right next door to Hong Kong and both are bigger than Hong Kong. In the case of Shenzhen it really is right next door to Hong Kong. I'm not going to say my wording is perfect but alternatives have to be factually correct. Derek Harkness 23:40, 21 April 2008 (CDT)

I agree with Derek here. Accuracy is key. Chris Day 00:53, 22 April 2008 (CDT)

It turns out I was thinking of Hong Kong's population like 15 years ago, when the island and Kowloon together were like 3.5M people (bigger than Guangzhou at the time). However, things have gone completely berserk in China in the last 10-15 years. According to Principal Cities of China Hong Kong is now only slightly larger than it was in 1990, but Guangzhou went from 3M in 1990 (smaller than HK at the time, note) to 7M in 2000! In ten years! And Shenzen went from less than 1M to 6.5M!! (And Shanghai went from 8M to 14M.. wow.)

Still, I think my basic point remains: Both Hong Kong and Macao are SAR's, but HK is much better known - because it's a major economic/financial center. Indeed, Shenzen would almost certainly not have shot from 1M to 7M without Hong Kong (I gather that a lot of HK's manufacturing has been moved out to Shenzen.) I do think the intro ought to somehow capture all that - Hong Kong's role as the economic/industrial 'sparkplug' to Southern China, and as a major global financial center. J. Noel Chiappa 19:14, 22 April 2008 (CDT)

the lede can't start off with a denial of false information (especially when it's based on zero evidence of what people think around China and the world). Let's be positive in what we say. Richard Jensen 19:41, 22 April 2008 (CDT)

I concur with Richard and his edit was effectively OK. But I notice it's edited yet again to say that Hong Kong is part of HKSAR. It's not part of... Hong Kong is Hong Kong SAR. The names HK and HKSAR are synonymous. One is the long form, the other is the short form but they are the same place. Derek Harkness 05:34, 23 April 2008 (CDT)

Let me ask a question that may help with this. I was under the impression that much of the New Territories was rural - but maybe I am being tripped up by old data? (Again! :-) For instance, is it built up all the way from Kowloon to Yuen Long? Or is Yuen Long more a suburb of Shenzen? Or is it still separate from both?

The thing is that I think there are three different things which one might reasonably refer to as 'Hong Kong': i) Hong Kong Island, ii) HKSAR, and iii) the urban area containing Kowloon, Victoria, etc. No two of them are congruent... J. Noel Chiappa 14:33, 23 April 2008 (CDT)

Much of the New Territories are rural, but there are significant population centres in the New Territories too. The New Territories had a population of 3.573 million in 2006 ([1]) which is more than half of Hong Kong's total population. The Territories have become much more developed since the status of Hong Kong was settled in the mid 90's.

Yuen Long, although physically close the Shenzhen, is far form being a suburb of Shenzhen. There is still a border between the two that requires immigration, quarantine and customs checks like most international borders. The communication lines, such as the MTR network, link Yuen Long to Kowloon rather than to Shenzhen.

Going back to your older post, which I missed - Shenzhen basically didn't exist before 1979. It was set up as a Special Economic Zone along with Zhuhai (which borders Macau SAR). They were intended to compete directly with the neighbouring colonial centres, which they did. In particular Shenzhen grew at an astonishing rate. During this time Shenzhen grew despite of Hong Kong rather than due to Hong Kong. Since the handover of Hong Kong to China, there has been a greater interaction between the two centres. Derek Harkness 19:26, 24 April 2008 (CDT)

Is Hong Kong in the People's Republic of China

Also, can we safely place Hong Kong in the People's Republic of China, rather than just 'China'? I have no idea about this, but Chinese people I've spoken to have given me different answers about whether HK is in the PRC, since there's the 'one country, two systems' formula. John Stephenson 05:08, 22 April 2008 (CDT)

Hong Kong is in the PRC. The flag that flies over Hong Kong's government building is that of the PRC. That's what the "One country two systems" means => One country. There are some people who would like to see "one country one system" and others who advocate "two countries", however, we should concentrate on describing things as they are, not as some might wish they would be. Derek Harkness 05:45, 22 April 2008 (CDT)