CZ Talk:Introduction to CZ for Wikipedians

Hey Steve, let me leave this in your hands. See CZ:Introduction to CZ for Wikipedians for what I worked on--feel free to fold it in, or not use it. I didn't realize that you were at work on this, or I wouldn't have bothered. --Larry Sanger 14:48, 30 March 2007 (CDT)

workgroups

workgroups build collaboration that wp did not/does not have.

workgroup recent changes allow you to monitor article changes within a general field.

wikipedia had sub-categories that only allowed you to monitor recent changes within that small sub-category instead of a general category like "biology workgroup."

Articles need to get tagged with workgroup tags for workgroup recent changes to work to its full potential.

Adding your name as an author to a workgroup...

Applying to become an editor of a workgroup...

Will add more ideas later. -Tom Kelly (Talk) 19:44, 30 March 2007 (CDT)

?

Really?

"At Wikipedia, creating lots of stubs is considered productive. Someone will always come along and add to it, "eventually". At Citizendium, we feel it is much better to start one or just a few articles, and concentrate on them until they are approved."

This is policy? -Tom Kelly (Talk) 20:09, 30 March 2007 (CDT)

What about Wiktionary, Wikiquote, Wikisource, etc.?

Do we ignore these? Link to them? Set up a Citictionary? Having done a lot of work on Wiktionary, I find it to be much simpler to work with and less subject to contention, manipulation, and plain silliness, than Wikipedia. Wikiquote, on the other hand, has some of the basic problems of Wikipedia on a smaller scale - obsession with pop culture trivia, arguments as to the notability of persons and media quoted, and efforts to manipulate the placement of quotes on contentious issues such as abortion and religion to score points for one ideological position or the other. Brian Dean Abramson 20:02, 1 April 2007 (CDT)

I think if a word needs to be defined, the article should define it. Etymologies belong parenthetically or in a footnote. Given what you said about Wikiquote, why bother linking to it at all?? Placing a link to Project Gutenberg or Wikisource's copy of Journey into the Interior of the Earth in an article about Jules Verne plainly seems good practice. Stephen Ewen 22:39, 2 April 2007 (CDT)

Bringing in solid, unchanging articles from Wikipedia

I've written 100+ Wikipedia articles on WWII U.S. Navy ships and some related subjects. They are all based on the public domain Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships (DANFS), but with some facts, public domain photos, etc. added by me. If I do say so myself, they are pretty good encyclopedia articles. There has been very little editing by other people.

Since these are basically historical articles about subjects that are not ever going to change (the ships were scrapped long ago), I'd like to be able to bring them over to CZ without making a lot of changes just for the sake of making changes. (It would be VERY hard to make factual changes, and troublesome to make wording changes, though the latter COULD be done.)

What should I do about these articles? Louis F. Sander 20:27, 1 April 2007 (CDT)

Hi Louis. That sounds like a decision for the Editor-in-Chief. - Stephen Ewen 20:48, 1 April 2007 (CDT)

Reading CZ:How to convert Wikipedia articles to Citizendium articles, it seems that you are free to copy them if you think that the Wikipedia articles are good and you adopt them to the Citizendium house style (remove categories and interlanguage links; that sort of stuff). I haven't seen an argument against copying them in this case. -- Jitse Niesen 21:26, 1 April 2007 (CDT)

There is more to it because the articles are based upon the public domain Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships. My own question is that if they really are unchanging at WP then is that not just mirroring them here? Are they really not improvable given CZ:Introduction_to_CZ_for_Wikipedians#Get_ready_to_rethink_how_to_write_encyclopedia_articles.21 ? Stephen Ewen 21:28, 1 April 2007 (CDT)

There are tons of good articles at Wikipedia that if you don't bring over eventually we'll be lacking here. If you get 1 enthusiast who wants to write on a rare topic, it is unlikely that he/she will want to completely change the way they approach writing an encyclopedia entry for a separate encyclopedia. Please, let's access the good content at WP and bring it over here. -Tom Kelly (Talk) 21:39, 1 April 2007 (CDT)

By bringing the articles to CZ they will go under the scrutiny of the editors before being approved and may indeed improve slightly. So if your article is really good and ready for approval, it will "improve" during the approval process. Bringing the article over will also attract the article to a group of experts that may not have stumbled across it at Wikipedia. I am not authority or an expert - just my opinion. -Tom Kelly (Talk) 21:42, 1 April 2007 (CDT)

All good points, Tom. The thing that is holding me up in this case from say yes, go ahead, this is clearly allowed by the exception clause, is that the articles are based on a public domain encyclopedia. I am just not sure of the status with that. This is why we need to get a decision on the matter, and one on principle that we can institutionalize into our policy...for the next time this issue comes around. :-) I'll get an answer. - Stephen Ewen 22:44, 1 April 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for the good discussion so far. I've brought one similar article over already, and of course I removed all the categories (there were a bunch of them). I'm mainly wondering how many wording changes, if any, should be the norm for articles like these. If I change a few things just to change them, somebody could of course make the same changes in the WP article. I'm thinking it might be a good practice to change something, just so one could examine the WP and CZ versions and tell them apart, at least until somebody makes them identical, if that should ever happen.

The article I brought over was USS Rankin (AKA-103). The CZ version is HERE, the WP version is HERE. I put in a better photo when I put it on CZ, and I made some other changes just to conform with CZ desires. It would be most excellent if other similar articles could be brought over without making changes just for the sake of making them. Louis F. Sander 00:32, 2 April 2007 (CDT)

Let me just say I think the article could be improved stylistically. See Article Mechanics--Narrative coherence and flow, Improving articles stylistically and Get ready to rethink how to write encyclopedia articles. - Stephen Ewen 11:15, 2 April 2007 (CDT)

Too much trouble, too little reward. 100+ stylistic rewrites of 100+ fairly long, reasonably good articles? No thanks. Louis F. Sander 04:10, 3 April 2007 (CDT)